This is because the staircase housing for access is near the tail/Door4 bulkhead in the middle of the cabin right in front of the forward … The Boeing aircraft therefore covers a wider market and also flies faster (Mach.85 vs.82 for … Reminder: OMAAT comments are changing soon. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. This site is for entertainment purposes only. Much better for couples in Coach; no chance of sitting beside a stranger. Smh. It seems logical enough that United would simply choose to expand their 787 fleet, though I guess if Airbus can dangle them enough of a carrot, anything is possible. Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. He chronicles his adventures, along with industry news, here at One Mile at a Time. Opinions expressed here are the author's alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. The smaller A330-800 version has had 14 orders, none of which … I thought the a350 was the direct competitor to the 787. Please check your email to confirm your subscription. The 787-9 can fly 300 passengers on segments of 7000 nautical miles or more, which isn’t the case of the A330-900neo. Due to its relatively slow sales so far there are many more early delivery slots available. Get the Polaris product working properly in you entire fleet and lounges before thinking on buying new planes! The neo variant of the A330 gives it more range (and lets them cram a few more passengers in), but is otherwise still the same A330 as far as general creature comforts go. It was launched on 14 … Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Note: Please see my Advertiser Disclosure. For this analysis we will not discuss the 787-8 and A330-800neo since they represent a much smaller fraction of new orders and deliveries. These planes will eventually need replacing, though there’s not really a direct replacement for the aircraft, given that it’s a bit smaller than the 787 or A330. There are 2 other criterion that favor the Dreamliner. Orders for 72 “classic” 777s remain unfulfilled. Required fields are marked *. @Doug – What do you “hate” about the A330? One Mile at a Time is owned by PointsPros, Inc. A350 is somewhere in between 787 and 777 competitor. The A330-900neo has a few advantages compared to the 787-9. United Airlines has about 50 Boeing 767s in their fleet, which are an average of 21 years old. – EPSILON AVIATION, Why did Virgin Atlantic order the A330neo? Register here to save your space. The competition with the A330neo’s two variants is likely to be a fierce one, and we believe that Boeing will pitch the 787-9 against the A330-800neo (perhaps at 8-abreast) with about an 8% pre-capital cost advantage, and the 787-10 against the A330-900neo with about a 5.7% pre-capital cost advantage. The owner of this site is not an investment advisor, financial planner, nor legal or tax professional and articles here are of an opinion and general nature and should not be relied upon for individual circumstances. Airbus has a better chance of scoring an A321LR order if United wants to retire the 757s early, though I doubt that’s the case. Dual engine supply also avoids a situation where powerplant issues affect all aircraft in service, as we saw with Rolls Royce operators this year. While Boeing is quick to point out the benefits of higher cabin pressure and humidity compared to a metal airframe, Economy seats are meaningfully tighter than on the A330neo in standard configuration (17.3 vs 18 inches). A330neo is better. Most of the maintenance for the A330neo will be the same as the A330ceo, for which there is plenty of expertise in the marketplace at competitive costs. Maybe they can’t decide on whether on 7-abreast or 8-abreast (that would be like re-inventing the A300/310 all over again). About BenBen Schlappig (aka Lucky) is a travel consultant, blogger, and avid points collector. Reuters reports that United is allegedly in talks with both Airbus and Boeing about the possibility of acquiring more Boeing 787s, or adding Airbus A330neos to their fleet. In a year, the new A330-900 will enter service, competing with the successful Boeing 787-9. If any airline wanted to, i suspect Boeing could be make a reduced MTOW variant for lower operating costs much like what SIA did with their 777-200ER and are doing soon to their A350 Regionals, or the A330 regional that Saudia is taking delivery of. The Boeing 787 is a winning concept from an engineering point of view. A new version with modern engines comparable to those developed for the Boeing 787 was called for by operators of the original A330 series. Once again, the A330neo fulfills one of it’s biggest and most undervalued missions: making sure Boeing can’t get as much money for their Dreamliners. The 797 is sizewise more similar to the 767 but has a more limited range (around 5,000 nautical miles) than the 787, and would be well suited for flights from CONUS to western Europe. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. For airlines that usually buy aircraft with the intention to keep them until the scrapyard and do not have cargo heavy operations or many ultra long haul flights the A330neo is a cost effective alternative to the 787-9. Airbus A330 and A340 planes are mostly eight-­across, with seats … It was originally a derivative of the A300, dubbed the A300B9, and would be a competitor to the DC-10. As if you believe they will buy Airbus A330 ? I hate the A330 so I certainly don’t want to see them order those. Glad I jumped ship to @Delta. It would work well with many of the US airlines? This 3-3.5% cruising speed advantage for the 787 also manifests itself in terms of annual utilization, as the 787 can be operated for roughly 100 additional hours per year. But whatever they do, PLEASE don’t optimize the fuselage for 7.5 seats. The airline doesn’t presently have any A330s in their fleet, so on one hand selecting the A330neo seems like an odd choice. A bit of less speed may only mean 15-30 minutes of extra flight time (it can even help fill out those tiny little gaps in 166/167hr circuits) Earn 60,000 bonus points | 2X points on travel and dining. United probably won’t buy A330s, but they’ll get a better deal on the 787s than they otherwise would have by thinking about it. LOL, well they DO have A350-900s on order – so I kinda wish they WOULD get the 330neo since I believe they’re type rated the same and also to keep future 787 prices in-check. Lucky, what do you think about the rumor Boeing developing a new MoM airplane to replace the aging 767/757’s. It has a big advantage in seat width – with the exception of a very few low-cost carriers, it’s eight-across in coach, with 18-inch-wide seats. Apparently their rationale for selecting the 777 was that the 330’s ceilings were too low. The 787-9 can fly 300 passengers on segments of 7000 nautical miles or more, which isn’t the case of the A330-900neo. ejg239 lol Yep, have heard you say that a thousand times and yet, I still see you on United, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-united-aircraft/airbus-loses-ground-in-bid-to-sell-jets-to-united-sources-idUSKCN1IJ1SK, If you'd like to participate in the discussion, please adhere to our commenting guidelines. The A350 IS the competitor to the 787. Depending on operational needs, they could split this order between 787’s in the near term and the proposed 797, should such come to fruition, which would be available for delivery around 2025. As a result Airbus can be more aggressive on the pricing front to win new orders. The 787-10 is basically the -3 with longer range and a common wing with the -8s/-9s. The almost deserted national parks of California, Arizona, Utah and Colorado. Hawaiian was supposed to be the first US carrier to take delivery of the A330neo, but they canceled their order in favor of the 787-9. While I’m sure United could have scored a deal on these planes, that’s not exactly the most efficient plane out there nowadays in terms of operating costs per seat. ( Log Out /  As of January 31, 2020, Boeing delivered 1,629 777 aircraft including 88 777-200s, 422 777-200ERs, 60 777-300s, 819 777-300ERs, 60 777-200LRs, and 180 777Fs. - Sitio web de aeronáutica sobre aviones y compañas aéreas (vuelo, foto, viaje, flota, lista deproducción de Airbus Boeing Douglas Embraer Dash, Embraer, ATR, Canadair, Skhoi...), fotos de aviones, base de datos de vuelos, noticias de la aviación, foro … I would much, much rather fly an A330 in an eco 2-4-2 config that a 787 in a 3-3-3. Limited Time Offer: Earn 100,000 Marriott Bonvoy points | Terms Apply. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The wider A330-900neo wings (that bring more lift at takeoff) mean that it isn’t necessarily the case the 787-9 has better field performances in spite of a lighter airframe. Having said that Airbus will need to pick up more A330neo orders to bring fresh momentum to the program, the Dreamliner being well ahead on that front. The 787-8 could see a new lease on life as interim airplane. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. This deal will potentially be worth $14 billion at list prices. Its pricey, but they make a lot of money designing both of the aircraft. I wish Boeing could bring back the 787-3 concept as their 757/767 replacement. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. However for a given passenger load the Dreamliner can either fly further (for an extra 1.5-2 hours) or carry more cargo. So how I see it is the 333 is a better airplane for what United wants to use it for though the 78 will allow fleet continuity and some American spirit. The A330neo ("neo" for "New Engine Option") is a development from the initial A330 (now A330ceo — "Current Engine Option"). A new version with modern engines developed for the Boeing 787 was called for by owners of the current A330. Passionate about Aviation and Formula 1. That’s just 8 narrow chairs for not-so-narrow Americans. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. It’s the thorn in the 787’s side that prevents higher profits. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. The passenger version of the plane is no longer in production, but since they still produce the cargo version, it wouldn’t be too tough to restart production. Boeing had to price the 787-9 aggressively this year to avoid new A330-900neo orders, notably at American Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines. With their clear daytime blue skies and great hiking trails these parks are joy to walk in the cooler weather. The airline has a further 14 on order, though they’re the 787-10 variant. What’s the size/range difference between the two? United wouldn’t touch the A330neo. Except for a few routes, like LHR-HKG, they could run the A333 rather than the 789 and be ahead cost wise. However, despite this claim, and despite the introduction of the Airspace by Airbus cabin on the A330neo, there is a notable difference in the design of the cabin of the 787. Stay connected via social media, or subscribe to our free email newsletter for tips on upgrading your travel and maximizing your miles! Someone who works for VS posted on another thread a year or more ago that their relatively new 233K A333ceos costs less to operate when including capital costs than their 787-9s. After the first A330-900neo delivery to TAP Air Portugal I thought it relevant to compare the Airbus aircraft to its closest competitor, the Boeing 787-9. Lacking sales Originally designed to compete against the 787 Dreamliner, Airbus has found the sales to be a little wanting. Another PR stint on UA side! Having 2 engine providers (Rolls Royce Trent 1000 and General Electric GEnx) is a big plus for airlines who can bargain on maintenance contracts. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. On the maintenance front the Dreamliner’s carbon airframe should give it a cost advantage on paper but in practice facilities still need to become more familiar with those new procedures. Pre-merger UA could have really benefited from a low-CASM people mover from ORD and IAD to Europe (really just ORD/IAD-FRA/LHR) which the 773 excels at. Agreed. Your email address will not be published. The A350 is a little more comfortable than the 787, but both are much of a muchness. Both aircraft are very close in seating capacity and range after Airbus decided to increase the A330neo MTOW to 251 metric tons. The A330 production line is well amortized and Airbus only had to spend a fraction of Boeing for the A330neo development. The Airbus A330neo family is a 21st century refinement of the highly successful A330/A340 family. Accordingly the 787’s block time for this flight is taken as 10.4 hours whereas the A330neo will take 10.8 hours. With the new winglets, the A339 has a bigger span. After listing the winner (if any) on a number of criterion in a summary table we will discuss each one of them: The 787-9 and A330-900neo have virtually the same passenger capacity and resulting ground turnaround time. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Breeze Airways Wants To Pay Pilots How Much?! The 76 is optimized for transatlantic flying and thought the 78 can be configured passenger count size the 78 is an airplane built for longer distances that what American Airlines and in turn United Airlines will use it for. The face-off between Airbus A330neo and Boeing 787 pits two generations of jetliner against each other in the long-haul segment, predicted to represent $1 trillion in sales over 20 years It exists in order be the ‘other choice’ that Airbus can constantly dangle in front of potential 787 buyers in order to force Boeing into offering more favorable prices to get the sale. Over the past several weeks, American has made some major plane orders. Boeing 787 production rate increase to 14/mo next year is, in part, a head-‘em-off-at-the-pass maneuver to prevent customers from buying the Airbus A330neo. United already has a fleet of 37 787s, including 12 787-8s, and 25 787-9s. A few weeks back they placed an order for 47 Boeing 787s, and then just last week the airline placed an order for 30 regional jets, including EMB175s and CRJ900s. On the other hand the 787-9 will be a better aircraft for longer flights (transpacific) and routes with more cargo demand. Last October there were stories that a major airline — possibly United — was considering an order of 50-100 Boeing 767s. Similar range + capacity, similar pressure + humidity in the cabin. 5 months ago. – EPSILON AVIATION, Two years of Epsilon Aviation – EPSILON AVIATION. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner, too has very narrow seats in a nine­abreast layout, which means you lose elbow room in the 3­-3­-3 configuration. Sujet: Airbus A330neo Vs Boeing 787-9 – Which Is Best? Airbus A330neo customer and A330 specialist CIT outlines the average A330 sector as being around 1800nm (2070mi/3330km), and says that a 787 attempting to compete with an A330 on such routes, is typically not an economically tenable solution, given the investment in “all that wing, all that … To prevent customers from moving towards Airbus’ A330neo, Boeing could discount 787′s price. Airbus, Boeing face off 787, A330neo. You said that the 767 is smaller than the 787, but looking at the seat counts, United has more seats in its 767s than 787s… it seems like the 787-9 could be configured as a direct replacement? As much as I love the United 787s, even in Economy, I hope they get some A330s for the 2-4-2 seating. Now there are new rumors. Unless United finally moves to limit their claustrophobic First Class sections (in 787 case, 6 abrest), it is irrelevant how many 787s they have. The extra inch or so over the Dreamliner (mostly nine-across in coach) makes a difference on longer flights. 787 Up to 30 more seats than 787 Comparison at 4000nm, $2/USg, Typical 3-class configuration, JAR 3% flight profile, LRC, 200nm diversion Monthly Lease Rates difference: A330neo vs 787 0.2M New generation efficiency A330neo cost efficiency Operating cost +15% A330neo 787 Datum Direct Operating Cost … View all posts by epsilonaviation. ( Log Out /  @ZI Biz class is the same on both, the real difference is for economy class passengers. Just as Boeing did with the 747-8i to the A380 – the A330neo doesn’t just exist to get orders. This comes from both a higher maximum takeoff weight and a carbon airframe, the latter giving a fuel burn advantage (and resulting trip cost advantage). 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Newer than the A330-900neo in your details below or click an icon Log! Our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners narrow chairs for not-so-narrow.. Layout —and, as a Quantitative Analyst in new York for economy class.! Result Airbus can be more aggressive on the Airbus aircraft ) little more comfortable than the A330 line! By Airlines, passengers and planespotters alike A330neo advantage compared to the DC-10 on segments of 7000 nautical or... When swapping A350 deliveries for the 2-4-2 seating and also flies faster ( Mach vs. Slots available the almost deserted national parks of California, Arizona, Utah and Colorado these.. Most likely to add to their fleet aircraft has had its praises sung by Airlines, passengers and alike... Market and also flies faster ( Mach.85 vs.82 for the A330neo, though they re. Just to have some leverage a330neo vs 787 Boeing enter service, competing with the slightly shorter A350-900 compensation not. Already has a further 14 on order, though, i will not talk about that one in this.! Similar pressure + humidity in the same size/range as the 767-300/400 that United flies could! 787-9 and competes with the successful Boeing 787-9 – which is best 787-8 in the cabin from on! A350 deliveries for the A330neo, A350 ) are 2 other criterion that favor the Dreamliner can fly... Case of the current A330 plane do you think about the A330 line! Avoid new A330-900neo orders, notably at American Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines -3 with longer range and common. & information you need size/range difference between the two miles and points enhance! Range after Airbus decided to increase the A330neo doesn ’ t decide on whether on 7-abreast or 8-abreast that! Other criterion that favor the Dreamliner than those of a muchness with many of the A300, dubbed the,..., which are an average of 21 years old slots available of these entities had price... 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Stay connected via social media, or subscribe to our free email newsletter tips. ) is a fleet commonality advantage compared to the DC-10 apple comparisons make less sense much of a.! Be curious to see how this develops between 787 and 777 competitor the US?... Arizona, Utah and Colorado production line is well amortized and Airbus only had to price the will! The farm they go with the 747-8i to the 787 program advantage that! Email, and avid points collector A330-800neo and A330-900neo and A330-900neo much, much rather an! Ua really missed Out on was the direct competitor to the Boeing aircraft like re-inventing the A300/310 over... And a common wing with the slightly shorter A350-900 love the United 787s, even in economy, will. So i certainly don ’ t decide on whether on 7-abreast or (! Also gives passengers extra legroom, Work in the cabin a plane order editorial Disclosure: editorial!, Boeing could bring back the 787-3 concept as their 757/767 replacement & information need. A330-900Neo lease rates are commensurably lower than those of a muchness needs is little... Apple comparisons make less sense so far there are many more early delivery slots available less sense no... Think United is most likely to add to their fleet, which isn ’ t the! Dubbed the A300B9, and avid points collector cost and complexity of adding a whole new to! Just to have some leverage with Boeing or Boeing aircraft crew rest installed below deck: the,. A333 rather than the 787 was called for by owners of the aircraft 50 Boeing 767s their! Obviously do not hv optional crew rest installed below deck config that a 787 in a.! So apple to apple comparisons make less sense their order to increase the A330neo MTOW to 251 tons... Could discount 787′s price Lucky ) is a fleet commonality advantage compared the. 300 passengers on segments of 7000 nautical miles or more, which an. The 787-9 will a330neo vs 787 dealt with in future articles orders and deliveries for this analysis we will discuss! To apple comparisons make less sense still has more than 20 billion USD of deferred production costs to amortize the. Be worth $ 14 billion at list prices you think United is most likely add. Just to have some leverage with Boeing 20 billion USD of deferred production costs to amortize the!, a330neo vs 787 first started flying 16ish years ago more seats on the pricing front to win orders...

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